tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post113448913019336414..comments2023-10-28T08:01:40.730-07:00Comments on Sound of a Suckout: Shorthanded Play: How Would You Counter This Opponent?ScurvyDoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12475986616947247959noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1134842891786020942005-12-17T10:08:00.000-08:002005-12-17T10:08:00.000-08:00I'm gonna take a shot at this one.Not because I ha...I'm gonna take a shot at this one.<BR/><BR/>Not because I have enything learned, experienced, or intelligent to say, but because the probalem makes me want to think about it.<BR/><BR/>To put it another way, I'm sure, providing the player is not good enough re his reads, that there is money to be made.<BR/><BR/>Standard advice in a full ring seems to be, tighten up when out of position, reraise when you hit anything premium, and ignore his cards, and play entirely your own cards on their merit to the bitter end. Let his own aggression hang him in the face of your iron discipline. <BR/><BR/>6 max, premium is a different thing. If the competition is weak and passive, I'd think about reraising with less than premium hands postflop - middle pairs, weak kickers, to isolate him, and play against his largely random holdings. <BR/><BR/>If the table is passive enough, reraise with any hand you plan to play against him. If the table is not passive enough, check reraise. <BR/><BR/>If I'm playing this style, I want to hit something (not necessarily something very much)for the first three of four tussles with him. And play them exactly the same way. I'm also looking to play them heads up if they are pairs, or high cards, suited or unsuited.<BR/><BR/> Bet the same for tptk, a set, middle pair, a strong draw if I feel like pushing, or an absolute monster.<BR/><BR/>Pause for the same amount of time, or none. I'm uncertain about his patterns? Let him be uncertain about mine. If he's random preflop, and I'm not, his advantage is postflop, in letting go, in making me fear him, and in getting me to call his monsters, and folding to mine. His monsters I can do little about, but everything else I can take away. Take him out of his comfort zone. <BR/><BR/>The less information he has about what my bets mean, the less information he has to play well post flop. And if he is uncertain about me, I have less reason to fear him, and he more to fear me.<BR/><BR/>Do it with better than marginal holdings. Make him uncertain. Put the pressure back on him. <BR/><BR/>Is he an ego driven aggressive player? If he is, and you have a good hand, make the game about his ego. Is aggressive the only style he can play? Establish an image with him, and change gears next time you have a hand. Does he rely on trash talk? Tell him, tearfully, to go f*** himself when you bet your set. Does he need to be in control of the table. Make him pay for that control. 77 is a favourite against the vast majority of random hands. <BR/><BR/>Hell. Just random thoughts from a break even low limit player.Abulafiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11921509952831648613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1134654740239194592005-12-15T05:52:00.000-08:002005-12-15T05:52:00.000-08:00I think your focus is too narrow in this case and ...I think your focus is too narrow in this case and the answer lies within the other four players. They're passive and you know in the long run they're going to get killed because of what they don't do, mainly to be aggressive enough to pick up the blinds and other free money when they can.<BR/>Their lost money is going somewhere, not in a vacuum, so it might as well be going to you instead of to the other passives and Gonzo. The flop is not going to hit them just as much as it misses you, only they're more likely to swerve off the road first in this shorthanded game, er, card version of "chicken," that we play. Gonzo is the hard target in this case. You pick up the passives' money and you can focus on taking Gonzo if you want. Of course, it's shorthanded and variance may mean you won't see a dime of the passives' money during this session. Also, why should passives keep you guessing? It should be the other way around. If they're reraising you, get rid of it.<BR/> I think against people like Gonzo, you're going to have to gamble more. Yet you can't let a lemur who is two-fisting chips into the pot throw you off your shorthanded game. It's shorthanded, but that doesn't mean it's ruleless -- it's still very much a big-card game. I'd stick to the raising/reraising hands in shorthanded charts that are out there (Mark of Surly Poker Gnome provided me with mine, I don't know the link) until you have these people figured out. <BR/> You could frustrate him by doing what the passives have been doing to you -- waking up with good hands, becoming a calling station and taking away his passing game to the river. <BR/> But the other posters are right. Sometimes, even in the presence of worse players, the sucker at the table is me. You could autoblow a few grand here but just as easily work out this problem against another maniac at $3/6.kurokittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00684922671174548776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1134582779474811302005-12-14T09:52:00.000-08:002005-12-14T09:52:00.000-08:00Sounds like a rough time. If I started to tilt, I'...Sounds like a rough time. If I started to tilt, I'd get up immediately. When you hit the word "flummoxed", it was time to go.<BR/><BR/>Otherwise, I'd answer aggression with aggression. If the table is pretty passive, see if you can get him headsup and deal with him accordingly. <BR/><BR/>Most importantly, don't let him check his blind! Don't give an LAG a free look at his cards!Pokerwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06087637119337918275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1134548231940851812005-12-14T00:17:00.000-08:002005-12-14T00:17:00.000-08:00One of the only ways I've seen this get taken down...One of the only ways I've seen this get taken down is by the table taking a player down vs. mano a mano. I witnessed this, not shorthanded, but at a complete game at the Bellagio this weekend (15/30). Lady had built a monster stack, up around $2,000 in a couple of hours, and she was barelling through just about everyone. She couldn't be moved off of pots, often staying with bottom pair. She won half of the pots with no one contesting.<BR/><BR/>Then it slowly changed, with no communication within the table, I made a take-a-stand calling her raise out of position with 86, hitting the 6 for bottom pair with two big cards and four-betting, then check/calling turn and check/raising the river when my 8 came. That seemed to turn the tide, and folks started gaining more confidence. She donked off her entire $2,500 stack over the next two hours or so, bought back in, then got up $1,000. First time I've ever had success; normally, I can't hang with the overaggression (with my apologies to alcanthang).CChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10777389833765857820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1134501199362856052005-12-13T11:13:00.000-08:002005-12-13T11:13:00.000-08:00"You're a good, aggressive player who plays shorth..."You're a good, aggressive player who plays shorthanded very well..."<BR/><BR/>You lost me right there.AlCantHanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05773186329404056551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1134500102314597862005-12-13T10:55:00.000-08:002005-12-13T10:55:00.000-08:00I think I vote for the get up and leave theory. I...I think I vote for the get up and leave theory. I've come out good and bad against these type players; but the swings give me heartburn.<BR/><BR/>I assume Doyle's room would have other tables available at that limit.WillWonkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06154883018461460762noreply@blogger.com