tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post114537838667067661..comments2023-10-28T08:01:40.730-07:00Comments on Sound of a Suckout: Hating/Loving TPTKScurvyDoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12475986616947247959noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1145484271578924532006-04-19T15:04:00.000-07:002006-04-19T15:04:00.000-07:00Great post. Great comments.Bravo everyone!Great post. Great comments.<BR/><BR/>Bravo everyone!jremotiguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00106436276361164877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1145407253693658662006-04-18T17:40:00.000-07:002006-04-18T17:40:00.000-07:00I'm down with seeing flops for "set value" with ba...I'm down with seeing flops for "set value" with baby pairs. As DoubleAs said, raising accomplishes almost nothing as if you get a caller or two, undoubtedly you'll be facing at least one or two overcards and since calls and raises are so ambiguous if you follow through with a c-bet, it's tough to continue in the hand. <BR/><BR/>I think it comes down to which pairs are you willing to play for set vaule and which for pair value. I draw the line somewhere around 88 depending on who I'm against and will usually continue with 88+ as long as the flop isn't AKJ<BR/><BR/>One thing about your "Don't be afraid to lump it all in on the flop with a really big draw" is fine assuming you are getting it in there with 15+ outs. Flush draws / overcard or a pair and 1 draw are not hands I'm thrilled to get it all in there with. 15 outs would make you the statistical favorite against almost any hand on the flop, but OESD + flush draw on the flop are pretty rare. And of course it's difficult to get it in on the flop especially in situations where you are fairly deep compared to the pot size, but since you have infinite outs you can still push hard and build the pot that is surely going to be yours. Same mindset as LHE I guess.RikkiDeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15600159307409966115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1145394000181891172006-04-18T14:00:00.000-07:002006-04-18T14:00:00.000-07:00Sounds like maybe I'm the only one, but I raise pr...Sounds like maybe I'm the only one, but I raise probably 2/3 of the time at least with all pocket pairs, if I'm the first one in the pot. Not all the time, but enough so that I can still get some action whenever I raise preflop with my monstrous hands. If I'm in MP and it's folded around to me and I find 33 in the pocket, I'm usually bumping that to 3x or 4x the big blind. Again, it's not that I disagree in any way with the theory of limping with small pairs, trying to keep people in the pot, and hoping to flop a set. That's still exactly what I'm hoping for if anyone calls me. But, I will happily pick up the blinds with any pocket pair and just be satisfied with that. I used to always be playing my pocket pairs to hit trips on the flop and try to <B>really</B> bust somebody, but what I've found over time playing a whole lot of nlh online is that, for me, I flop trips so infrequently when I have my pocket pairs (this is especially true for the baby pairs) that I would rather win just the blinds than inevitably folding to a bet on the flop from someone who I'm quite sure is ahead of me when that bet is made. And still, I bet and raise enough preflop that when I get KK or AA and raise it up that same 3x or 4x preflop, I get action, sometimes lots of it. That's where I make my bread and butter, rather than waiting for 55 to flop trips and then hope no one sucks out a straight, a flush, or even a straight flush on me.<BR/><BR/>Just my two cents. Obviously there are lots of ways to play any hand profitably. See you in the WWdN tonight if you're playing.Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17031535857121915911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1145389971391716982006-04-18T12:52:00.000-07:002006-04-18T12:52:00.000-07:00Absinthe,I hear you (and I probably have overcorre...Absinthe,<BR/><BR/>I hear you (and I probably have overcorrected too far to one extreme with hands like the 6h8h ones) but over time I finally came to realize that I'm just not good enough to do much more than break even with those hands, if I'm playing perfectly. <BR/><BR/>I'm more than happy to pump J10h in that same spot, but I think 6h8h is significantly worse, so I just fold and move on.<BR/><BR/>Not to say everyone should fold it, or that it can't be played profitably by monkeys more skilled than myself. I should have qualified that to say "that I fold.." instead of "that you fold...", as results will obviously vary.ScurvyDoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12475986616947247959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1145385924194029412006-04-18T11:45:00.000-07:002006-04-18T11:45:00.000-07:00doubleas hit it on the head. I never raise with b...doubleas hit it on the head. I never raise with baby hands. I'll limp from any position, and if a big raise comes behind me, it's easy to get away from. Same thing if you don't hit the flop.<BR/><BR/>Of course when you have 33 (and the board shows AQ2 rainbow) and you throw away your baby pair to a raise just to see another 3 hit on the river, you tilt a little bit.Heavy Crittershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15714415354327268929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7938736.post-1145383671766538912006-04-18T11:07:00.000-07:002006-04-18T11:07:00.000-07:00nice post.It looks like you answered your own inde...nice post.<BR/><BR/>It looks like you answered your own indecision about how to play small pairs. I like limping with low pairs. If I raise, it doesn't accomplish anything. If I win the blinds, so what. If I get called, and follow through, I only get called/raised by better hands. What's worse is that I can't fade much of anything including semi-bluffs unless I connect myself. <BR/>Also, I don't want to reduce the field. I need somebody to catch something that will be good enough to pay my set off. A pair and flush draw, two pair, etc.<BR/>If I get somebody behind me raising preflop, all the better. They've narrowed their range and I really have set value now because there is a good chance they'll have an overpair or TPTK if I hit my set.<BR/><BR/>I'd also caveat your junk hands section for beginning players. Junk played poorly costs a lot of players money. If you're going to play junk, you've got to have good poker skills in general. You need to know when you're ahead and when your opponent is strong/weak enough to push hard. Flopping bottom two pair in a multiway pot is -EV for a lot of people. Flopping an OESD and getting strung along and missing your draw costs money. Knowing that your opponents are trying to avoid going broke with TPTK or an overpair makes it that much harder to get junk to pay off. In the cases the opponent does come along, they probably have a lot of outs themselves or some strong like top two pair or a set.<BR/><BR/>I think people reading your post to learn how to play should avoid playing junk hands until they're competent playing quality cards.doubleashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13264128794704282919noreply@blogger.com