Thursday, August 03, 2006

Oh Sweet Jebus, He's About to Talk About Poker!

These are all hands that I've recently gone broke on at the $2/4 NL 6 max tables. Any and all comments and/or suggestions and/or subtle (or not subtle) implications of massive lemur-dom are welcome. For the record, I'm doing pretty well overall at $2/4 NL, but I don't see the point in posting hands where my AA holds up over QQ or where I flop a set and KK can't get away from his hand, as those are pretty snore-rific and not really useful to anyone.

Break Me #1:

I'm sitting in a typically donkified game at Titan, having chipped up to about $500. Two players at the table are truly horrible, one is slightly horrible, one seems decent, and the other is pretty good. I'm in the BB with J9h.

Truly Horrible #1 (who has $150 behind) raises to $12 from UTG, Truly Horrible #2 (about $400 behind) calls from the button, Pretty Good Player (about $550 behind) calls from the SB, and I call $8 more into a $42 pot, willing to take a flyer on the flop.

Pot is $50 and the flop is 8s 10h Jc. SB checks and the action is on me.

That's obviously a pretty damn good flop for me but I really don't know where I'm at. Horrible #1's range is A10o and bigger aces, 55-AA, and probably any two suited face cards. Horrible #2 could literally have anything, as he was an action monkey that'd pretty much play any two cards if it looked like it might develop into a big pot. Pretty Good Player likely has something decent, but he's also smart enough to have a speculative holding, trying to break the Horribles.

My gut impulse is to check and see what develops, as I have no trouble dumping this if heavy action ensues. My Q outs for the straight may be tainted, and a 9 for two pair puts many straight possibilites out there.

But checking doesn't really clarify the situation any, and Horrible #1 (who's on a shorter stack) will likely take the lead if I check. I don't mind isolating against him if I can, as I'm ahead of the bulk of his possible holdings, so I decide to bet $25, with the hope that he'll raise and we'll lose the other two players.


I bet $25 and Horrible #1 insta-raises to $100 (leaving him about $40 behind). Horrible #2 folds and Pretty Good Player dwells for quite awhile before calling. The pot is $275 and it's $75 more for me to call. I've got about $460, Horrible #1 has $40, and Pretty Good Player has about $440.

If I re-raise a hefty amount, I'm fairly sure I can blow Pretty Good Player off of a hand like AJ, KJ, AK, AQ, A10, K10, etc. I can't see him just calling pre-flop with QQ-AA, and JJ is highly unlikely. If he has 88 or 1010 or 79 or Q9, well, so be it. His smooth call might not be a monster but just recognition of how short Horrible Player #1 is, and the fact that I might have just been probing with my initial bet and would fold, leaving him heads-up with Horrible Player #1.

The problem, though, is that if I re-raise a decent amount (in the $200 range), I'm basically committed if he comes over the top, as I'd be faced with calling my last $200 or so into a roughly $800 pot, which I pretty much have to do, despite all signs pointing towards Really Good Player being well ahead of me with one of the aforementioned unlikely hands.

(And yeah, all this is basically ignoring Horrible Player #1, but he's only got $40 behind and is pretty horrible, so I don't see any reason to dwell too long on his possble holdings, as he's a bit of a moot point.)

I can't fold, getting roughly 4-1 on my money. I can definitely call and see what develops on the turn, but if I brick and Pretty Good Player checks to me, I'm in pretty much the same predicament as above. I could bet just enough to put Horrible Player #1 all-in and hope Pretty Good Player goes away, but he's getting odds to call with any sort of hand there. If I bet enough to punish any possible draw he might have, I'm committed to calling if he re-raises or shoves. I'm also giving him free shots at turning a bigger pair if he has overcards, if I just call on the flop instead of raising.

So I finally decide to re-raise. That decision made, I might as well use my full ass and not half-ass it, since any substantial re-raise commits me.


I raise to make it $300 more (leaving about $100 behind in a likely too obvious attempt to convince Pretty Good Player that I have a monster and am not just trying to scare him off with an overbet), Pretty Horrible #1 calls, and Pretty Good Player dwells again for quite awhile, then shoves. I call off pretty much the rest of my stack.

The board bricks out and Pretty Good Player takes the juicy pot down with QQ, as Pretty Horrible Player had A10o. Rebuy for me.


Break Me #2:

Only one obvious lemur at the table this time at Titan, who has about $500 or so to start the hand. Obvious Lemur earned the moniker by playing absolutely horribly, overbetting constantly, bluffing constantly, overvaluing any A from any position, calling down with third pair, etc. I'm on the button with $325 and JsJc.

Folds to me and I raise to $15. SB folds and Obvious Lemur calls.

Flop is 4h 8h Jh. Obvious Lemur insta-shoves. I try to put him on a baby flush but fail, assuming instead that he's got a smaller set/two pair/Ah/absolutely nothing and call. Obvious Lemur has 3h7h and the board doesn't pair. Rebuy for me.

5 comments:

kurokitty said...

I think in the second example it's hard to fold since in 6-max the chance that someone has flopped a flush is lower than full ring and you have outs for the board to pair.

In the first example, you have TP with a nice draw. I'm not sure if I would always bet 1/2 pot here and prolly would check more often. But I certainly would downgrade "Pretty Good Player" to something less because to push with QQ on that kind of board ... it doesn't really seem like he meets that criteria anymore.

Eppa Lorny said...

Yeah, second hand you gotta call that every time.

UnderDog said...

Hand #2 Thats just poker! You played it fine.

Hand #1
The bet you make was fine, you got information. Checking, or a check raise are also good choices.
. I can't see him just calling pre-flop with QQ-AA, and JJ is highly unlikely
Why? AA sure, KK maybe not QQ Vs the weak player good choice.
That's obviously a pretty damn good flop for me.
Not to sure about that one J
One thing to keep in mind, You only had $8 in that pot ($4 from BB) so a check and a fold means you didn’t give up much. But the $25 bet gave you info, Like, the good player was still in the hand! So use that information. 4 to 1 nice, but by pushing you don’t have 4 to 1 anymore. Also you have TPCK (crapy kicker) Good player has you beat.

My aproch my be different then some, but I look for better spots. There are so many bad players and bad plays to take advantage of. Hindesite is 20/20 and I don’t think you played the hand that bad. But for me with J8 im looking to hit that flop a bit stronger.
I know you had the str draw, but this isnt limit, so unless you can get cards cheeply, you need to let that hand go.


Peace

Poor Tom said...

I know nothing about poker at this level and not much more about poker at any level.. but for what it's worth I don't like hand #1. There's a good chance this is just because i'm a pussy, but I just can't see the value in your re-raise.

Seems to me you're throwing in essentially your entire stack on not much more than a semi-bluff in which most or even all your outs could be dead to a lot of their likely holdings.. jacks no kicker is hardly ever going to be good after the raise and call on the flop.

I don't totally love his calls with QQ, but he was probably reading you as AJ, and he wasn't far off - your bet-push looks to me more like trying to protect a vulnerable hand or a semi-bluff than a monster, plus he's got a gutshot..

Hand #2... well, that would be a heck of a fold against someone like that..

RikkiDee said...

heres my take;

Hand 1: Its a decent flop, but nothing I'm ever thrilled to get my stack in with if it comes to that. With 4 players in and that flop, more than just you are going to like it, so betting out doesn't overly gain you too much information. I like the check - see what develops line. The action will still dictate your reaction, and determine whether or not you have the winning hand now or are drawing.

As played, when the so called decent player cold calls you from the SB, you have to assume you are beat. He isn't doing that with a naked 9, and not many other holdings make sense (maybe pair+9 like you). A good player when seeing a bet and a raise is probabbly going to decide there and then if they have the best hand, so their cold call would make me super suspicious, and you can at least assume they arn't going to fold to any reraise. Take your 4-1 odds, call and take the turn card.

Btw, there is no way that player in the SB is very good. He couldn't have played that QQ worse and got super lucky no one out drew him.

2nd hand: standard, insta call. Having someone push a flopped flush into here is so rare that you should even be calling with overpairs/tptk on occasion, depending on how donkified your opponent. And of course, you have 7 outs on the turn and 10 on the river to fill up.